FAVOURITE BIBLE VERSE: Mark 17:1-3 (MTV)

 

My favourite bible verse is one that I wrote myself. I am following the tradition of multiple endings to Mark's gospel. It's the Mark Tindall Version (MTV).

Mark 17:1-3 (MTV) "All things are probable. Try to believe. Really! Try to believe even if it's irrational. Why? Because I said so, that's why! Don't ask questions. Just believe."

MORONS FINALLY HAVE A VOICE ON SOCIAL MEDIA

In the past, morons could only write a letter to a newspaper and the editor would read it and decide that morons should not get a priority in their newspaper and throw the letter in the 'round file'. Now any idiot can post anything on social media. The morons finally have voice!

CHARGING ADMISSION FEES TO HEAR THE GOSPEL

How much did Jesus charge to listen to the sermon on the mount? Can you quote a gospel verse as evidence?

The answers are:
1. Jesus charged nothing for the Sermon On The Mount.
2. No fees for Jesus's Sermon On The Mount are ever mentioned in any of the gospels.

You can certainly make up other justification for charging fees for ordinary citizens. You just can't do that by quoting any gospel verse on the life of the historical Jesus. Leaving a livelihood and becoming a full time follower dependent upon the charity of others is not the same as an ordinary citizen paying an admission fee to listen to a sermon. It's a category mistake. The full time follower and the ordinary citizen are different like apples and oranges. Jesus had no admission fees for any ordinary citizen.

Charging fees to hear the gospel is the Hill$ong Model. User pays. Fee for service.

RESPECTFUL DIALOGUE - Facebook Group

Join the discussion at https://www.facebook.com/groups/respectful.dialogue/

WHY DID I START THIS GROUP?

This group was started because of my experience with atheists.

The vast majority of atheists that I encountered in atheist forums eventually resorted to insult and / or ad hominem fallacy when I did not agree with them 100%. ( There were also many polite, educated atheists with whom it was a joy to discuss.) The Moderators approved of atheists insulting non-atheists but those who insulted atheists were warned or banned. This type of hypocrisy was rampant in the vast majority of atheist forums I was a member of or visited.

The obnoxious type of atheists were as “angry [mean], argumentative, dogmatic [closeminded]" as any fundamentalist creationist Christian I had ever met. (See http://shadowtolight.wordpress.com/2013/07/18/science-shows-new-atheists-to-be-mean-and-closed-minded/ & http://www.atheismresearch.com/ ) Many philosophers and theologians indeed call them "fundamentalist atheists". The only difference was that fundamentalist creationist Christians were not as insulting as the atheists.

Along with being “angry [mean], argumentative, dogmatic [closeminded]" the obnoxious type of atheists wrongly assumed that they had a higher IQ and were more logical and rational than any non- atheist though the vast majority had never studied the domain of logic and rationality - philosophy. Many atheists had never read the religious texts that they criticised or, if they did, could only read them in a naive amateur literalist manner. They knew very little about the nuances of hermeneutics. They regularly criticised religions though they had never met in person anyone from the religion they were criticising. They, again, knew very little about the religion's various dogmas and the different denominations within the religion.

One quite famous atheist who has a "cult" regularly uses his catch phrase of "Logic!" while at the same time sprouting some of the most illogical and irrational nonsense in an “angry [mean], argumentative, dogmatic [closeminded]" manner peppered with as many swear words that he can think of. “angry [mean], argumentative, dogmatic [closeminded]" isn't any way to persuade people to adopt your worldview.

Each month new atheists are added to this group. I have blocked more atheists for not following the group rules than any other group of people.

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1. No personal insult of members or individuals.
2. No insult of deities / prophets / spokespeople
3. No posting threads irrelevant to the aim of the group.
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One would think that these minimal rules would be easy to follow but apparently they are quite difficult for some atheists who are regularly encouraged to to do the exact opposite on many forums.

Learn how to dialogue.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FROM http://www.emotionalcompetency.com/dialogue.htm

Dialogue is the creative thinking together that can emerge when genuine empathetic listening, respect for all participants, safety, peer relationships, suspending judgment, sincere inquiry, courageous speech, and discovering and disclosing assumptions work together to guide our conversations. It is an activity of curiosity, cooperation, creativity, discovery, and learning rather than persuasion, competition, fear, and conflict. Dialogue is the only symmetrical form of communication. Dialogue emerges from trusting relationships. ...

- Balance Inquiry and Advocacy ...

- Listening to understand ...

- Suspending judgment ...

- Respecting all: Attribute positive motives and constructive intent to each participant. Appreciate all that is good about them, all that you share in common with them, and all they can contribute. Acknowledge the dignity, legitimacy, worth, and humanity of the person speaking. Allow for differing viewpoints and learn all you can from them. Examine the origins within your self of any tendency you have to disrespect participants. Resist your temptation to blame. Remain humble and accept that they can teach us and we can learn from them. Attain and appreciate their viewpoint; do not attack, intrude, deny, dismiss, dispute, or discount their comments. Banish violence.

- Speaking your voice ...

Quotations:

“People don't listen, they reload.” ...

“The unity of contraries is the mystery at the innermost core of dialogue.” ~ Martin Buber ...

“Inquiry and violence cannot coexist.” ~ Peter Garrett

“The magic of dialogue is that it really does enhance respect and acceptance of others.” ~ Daniel Yankelovich ...

“There is something valid in every position.” ~ Johan Galtung ...

ST PETER'S MAMMA

It's been said that St Peter's mamma was a miser through and through. Never did she give to charity or spend a penny on her fellow man. One day while she was peeling leeks, a poor woman came by begging. "Will you give me a little something, good woman?"

"That's right, everybody comes to me begging ... Well, take this, and don't ask for any more!" And she she gave her one leaf of a leek.

When the Lord called her into the next life, he sent her to Hell.  The head of Heaven was St Peter, and as he sat on the doorstep, he heard a voice. "Peter! Just look at how I am roasting! Son, go to the Lord, talk to him, get me out of this misery!"

St Peter went to the Lord. "Lord," he said, "my mother is in Hell and begging to be let out."

"What! Your mother never did a good turn in her whole life! All she has to her credit is one little leek. Try this. Give her the leek leaf to catch hold to, and pull her up to Paradise by it."

An angel swooped down with the leek leaf. "Grab hold!" ordered the angel, and St Peter's mamma caught hold of the leaf. She was about to be pulled up out of Hell, when all the poor souls there with her and seeing her rise, latched on to her skirts. So the angel drew up not only her but all the others as well. Then that selfish woman screamed, "No! Not you all! Get off! Just me! You ought to have had a saint for a son, as I did!" She kicked and shook them from her, jerking about so much to get free, that the leek leaf broke in two and St Peter's mamma went plummeting to the bottom of Hell.

RESPECTFUL DIALOGUE: Atheists / Theists / Agnostics / Etc - Facebook Group

I have created a new group for those interested. Join the group, add members and participate in the dialogue. https://www.facebook.com/groups/respectful.dialogue/

RESPECTFUL DIALOGUE is a safe haven for respectful dialogue between atheists, theists, agnostics etc.

RULES:
1. No personal insult of members or individuals.
2. No insult of deities / prophets / spokespeople
3. No flooding threads with off topic posts.
4. No posting threads irrelevant to the aim of the group.

Not adhering to the rules will result in a permanent ban.

Favourite Bible Verses

The vast majority of verses in the bible book of Numbers are NEVER mentioned in any sermon nor taken as a favourite bible verse.  One only has to look at the Top Verses Bible link and check - http://www.topverses.com/
The top verse from Numbers is Numbers 1:2  is ranked: 801 * (800 verses more popular)
"Take a census of the whole Israelite community by their clans and families, listing every man by name, one by one." (NIV)

The lowest verse from Numbers is Numbers 7:62 rank: 31076 *(31075 verses more popular.  There are 31,102 verses in the bible.) "One gold dish weighing ten shekels, filled with incense" (NIV)

Compare this to ....

Top 10 Books
1. Ephesians
2. James
3. Titus
4. 1 John
5. 2 Peter
6. John
7. Philippians
8. Colossians
9. Romans
10. 1 Peter

Top 10 Chapters

1. 2 Peter 1
2. Psalm 1
3. John 2
4. James 4
5. Romans 12
6. Isaiah 53
7. John 3
8. Romans 1
9. James 1
10. Acts 1

One knows that one will hear these verses repeatedly in sermons and quoted by Christians though they make up a small percentrage of the bible.

I note that the very least quoted bible verse is 1 Chronicles 25:23 Rank: 31105
"The sixteenth to Hananiah, his sons and relatives, 12" (NIV)

Evidence for Adam's existence

That Jesus or Paul or the editors of the Genesis narrative (Elohist and Yahwist) may have believed that Adam existed is no proof that Adam actually existed in time and space history.

Assuming that fundamentalist Christians are correct and that Adam was created 4000 CE, then the "proof" they offer up for his existence is all hearsay written at least 3000 years after Adam's supposed  creation, Genesis 2  ( written 960 BCE - Elohist editor) and as late as 4000 years after his supposed creation, I Timothy ( written 100 - 150 CE - a forgery).

Thus the oral tradition about Adam must have survived 3000 to 4000 years completely unchanged to when the bible stories were written ...... and pigs might fly.

PRAYER ON THE OCCASION OF UTTER BOREDOM IN CHURCH

PRAYER ON THE OCCASION OF UTTER BOREDOM IN CHURCH

Oh Lord,

This service is so dull that I think I must be dead. But if it be, Lord, by your grace and favour, that I am not in fact dead - merely stunned into mind-numbing oblivion by the overall tedium, and general inconsequentiality of the proceedings - grant your servant this: grant that the Vicar becomes 'called up yonder'* to that 'place which you have prepared for him' right away ... if that not be too forward a request, of course.

Amen.

* Note: For those whose theologies allow, "raptured" may be substituted here.

From Martin Wroe & Adrian Reith "101 Things to Do With a Dull Church: the Complete Guide For the Bored Again Christian" (Minstrel, Eastbourne, E. Sussex: 1989) pp 32-33.

Australian Christian Lobby & "True Christians"

I note that the Australian Christian Lobby states :
"- That 12.7 million, or 64% of Australians declared themselves as Christians in the 2006 ABS Census.
- That over 2 million Australians attend a place of worship every Sunday"

That means that a mere 10% of the Australian population attend a church weekly. Some the 64% who classified themselves as Christians name themselves as Christians because that is the religion they were brought up in. Most never attend church, don't read the bible, don't think much about their particular denomination or Jesus or God and don't adhere to the man-made dogmas of their denomination.

When Christians want to add people to their church denomination they have extremely strict rules as to who is acceptable and a "true Christian". When they want to lobby politicians to support their causes then they add any person who claims to be a Christian. Quite strange!

The bible is a poor moral standard

Chrisians wish to place a man-made fallible bible as their moral standard and enforce that arbitrary standard on all other human beings.

The bible itself never states that it should be the moral standard for Christians and never states that the whole bible is "God's Word". All such pronouncements are man-made dogmas.

The bible is full of contradictions and errors and is thus a very poor moral standard.

The choice of the bible as a moral standard is arbitrary. Jesus never states that some bible to be complied after his death is a moral standard to be followed for all time. Some of the moral standards within the bible are evil by today's legal standards. For example, slavery is condoned in both Old and New Testamnents. 

Moral standards within the bible have also changed over time. In Old Testament times was permissable to have mulitple wives and concubines. The New Testament states that one shoud only have one wife and no concubines.

Punishments for breaking the moral code in the bible have also changed. In the Old Testament many of the punishment for breaking a moral code was death - Leviticus 20:9, Exodus 21:17.

Genocide an mass murder of children is condoned in the bible in Genesis 6:5-9; Deuteronomy 7:1-2; Joshua 6:21; Joshua 10:40-41,

Joshua 8:24 - City of Ai
Joshua 10:26 - Joshua murdered five defenseless kings of the Amorites in cold blood.
Joshua 10:28 - City of Makkedah
Joshua 10:29 - City of Libnah
Joshua 10:31 - City of Lachish
Joshua 10:33 - City of Gezer "...Joshua smote him and his people until he had left him none remaining."
Joshua 10:34 - City of Elgon "They left none remaining."
Joshua 10:37 - City of Hebron
Joshua 10:38 - City of Debir
Numbers 21:2-3 - City of Hormah
Numbers 21:33-35: Land of Bashan "...they smote him, and his sons, and all his people, until there was none left him alive: and they possessed his land."
Deuteronomy 2:21-24: The Ammonite, Horim, and Avim people.
Deuteronomy 2:26-35 - Land of Heshbon "...we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain."
Judges 4:16 - City of Sisera

The bible condones the murder of children.

The near ritual murder involving Isaac in Genesis 22:1-18.
Mass murder of the first-born of Egypt in Exodus 7:3; Exodus 7:13-14; Exodus 12:29-30:
Mass murder of 42 little children in 2 Kings 2:23-24.
Executing a whole family for the sins of the father in Joshua 7:20-25.
Mass murder of the Midianite children in Numbers 31:1-18.
Mass murder of Babylonian babies in Psalms 137:8-9.

I would suggest that the bible should be the very last choice as a moral standard as it is so unethical and inmmoral in multiple parts of its texts. The bible condones slavery, polygamy, concubinage, death penalty for trivial crimes, genocide and mass murder of children. Such standards are not objective but entirely subjective and man-made.

GOD'S INERRANT AUTOBIOGRAPHY

"God: The Ultimate Biography" (Ebury Press: 1987) by "Holy Ghost writer Jeremy Pascal." (obviously a God inspired prophet) - GOD'S INERRANT AUTOBIOGRAPHY!

I quote from pages 7 - 12:

"I should have thought that this is the one autobiography that needs no introduction. .. the fact that in a galaxy as yet undiscovered by Homo Sapiens another of my books - God On Gardening - has outsold even the Bible. .... Although the Bible has done very well in it is only a biography and an unauthorised one at that. I DIDN'T EVEN WRITE IT. ... With such a large team of authors, inaccuracies are bound to creep in and I will correct them in the course of this definitive, work. ... I've decided it was time to write My version of the facts, just to put the record straight, correct the errors and cover some omissions, not least the matter of the Eleven Commandments ...

God.

The Author of all creation."

God personally wrote it as is proven by the verses from GOD'S INERRANT AUTOBIOGRAPHY above.

This also proves that God did not write the bible as God states on page 10 above in GOD'S INERRANT AUTOBIOGRAPHY" I didn't even write it [The bible]."

PROOF that "God: The Ultimate Biography" is GOD'S INERRANT AUTOBIOGRAPHY.

1. The amazing care that was required in copying GOD'S INERRANT AUTOBIOGRAPHY, according to Ebury Press.

2. Textual critics have thousands upon thousands of printed copies of GOD'S INERRANT AUTOBIOGRAPHY to research and compare.

3. No passages in GOD'S INERRANT AUTOBIOGRAPHY are even questionable.

4. Textual critics find the all copies of GOD'S INERRANT AUTOBIOGRAPHY in 100% agreement.

5. The autographs of GOD'S INERRANT AUTOBIOGRAPHY are extant and held by Ebury Press. Jeremy Pascal inspected them.

6. If we have good copies of GOD'S INERRANT AUTOBIOGRAPHY, we have a divine message.

7. GOD'S INERRANT AUTOBIOGRAPHY has sufficient internal claims that it is God's word, true, it will not pass away, God breathed, the work of the Holy Spirit superintending the writing process of God as the only author.